Interview with Robert Bresson "Interview with Robert Bresson" Co-authored by Serge Daney and Serge Toubiana, June-July 1983, "Cinema Manual" Cahiers du cinéma
"Cinema Manual": My dear Robert Bresson, your film "Money" will be screened at the Cannes Film Festival. This is our chance. We want to ask about the starting point of this film-that is, the adaptation of a short story by Tolstoy.
Robert Bresson: Tolstoy wrote some very fascinating short stories. One of them, The Forge Coupon , not only provided me with a starting point: an idea about the dizzying spread of evil and the ultimate surge of goodness.
"Handbook": How do you achieve the setting of the story, I guess it is the transition between the early this century and modern Paris?
Bresson: I immediately imagined the film taking place in Paris. I make people speak the way they speak today, live the way of Parisians, on the streets, and in their homes.
"Handbook": This is not the first time you have drawn inspiration from Russian literature in the nineteenth or early twentieth century. Do Dostoevsky and Tolstoy have something unique that appeals to you?
Bresson: The truth from Dostoevsky and the truth from Tolstoy.
"Handbook": This film, "Money"-how long have you wanted to make it?
Bresson: About three or four years ago, I submitted this project to the Advances on Receipts committee, and they refused even the small sum of money I asked for. At the same time, I am looking for investment in a film I love in the United States, which is Genesis , or to be precise the beginning of Genesis, from Genesis to the Tower of Babel. I will work on it soon.
"Handbook": Did you prioritize the two items in your mind? Do you want to do a certain part first?
Bresson: I have had the idea of Genesis for a long time. I used to make it with De Laurentiis. I spent seven to eight months in Rome doing screenwriting and starting my preparatory work. Things got worse between de Laurentiis and me, and then I returned to Paris.
"Manual": What surprised me is that your film is only one and a half hour long, which is a bit short compared to today's, if compared with the films of other major authors in the world's film industry. How do you decide the length of the film?
Bresson: I did not count. The film can be ten minutes long or ten minutes short. I think if we ask the audience too much, their attention will be exhausted at some point. For a film, there is an optimal length, just as there is for a poem, in the words of Edgar Allan Poe.
"Manual": But you seem to want to say something quickly, as if the message of the film is urgent, and then you only spent the time you need to convey it.
Bresson: I used to be able to separate me from the imperatives of our time, but I couldn't do that anymore. I'm afraid this film, "Money", may be too tricky. In reality, when you shoot long enough and you try to be your best, you can't really have a certain opinion about what you are doing. You are a worker and you are doing your best.
"Handbook": The story of this film is quite violent, but it is difficult to say whether this is a pessimistic or optimistic film, because it inspires a...
Bresson: The term "pessimist" annoys me because it often replaces the use of "lucidity". Cocteau once spoke of happy pessimists. Maybe I am.
"Manual": There are more things in your film than pleasure. It has superb skills, a kind of fun in the film—playing, having fun—somewhat reminds me of "Pickpocket".
Bresson: For this film, my work style is more desperate on the one hand, and more detached, more impulsive and free on the other. I'm glad you think it has superb skills. Naturally, my non-actor has no experience in the art of drama and does not speak more than necessary-and the human voice, the most beautiful voice, has its natural place in the world of sound, which can be compared to the world of images. In my next film, the soundtrack will have greater importance, and I hope that it will be more important than this one. Or, at least, I will give it more attention and sensitivity. I have both said and written-not so long ago*-that the sound in the film must become music. Nowadays, I think the whole film must be turned into music: a kind of music, a kind of music for everyday life. I surprised myself with "Money"-when I watched its screening during the editing process, I only felt it through the sound. I did not feel through the images flashing before my eyes.
"Handbook": In the film industry, real money for shooting is quite rare. You have already done this in "Pickpocket". This time it was even more unexpected: you called the film "Money." The title itself is very violent. Is this deliberate?
Bresson: Yes, but I have to apologize for not being more extreme.
"Handbook": In your film, money is the thing that liberates the characters' passion. Do you think we would be willing to do anything for money, even murder?
Bresson: The news tells us that every day.
"Handbook": The idea of a counterfeit bill...
Bresson: ...It was the idea of a simple, small counterfeit bill that caused a terrible and evil collapse. Kindness wins, in Tolstoy's story, much earlier than in my film. There is a whole section of religious content-evangelical-which accounts for almost two-thirds of Tolstoy's story. In my case, the idea of salvation only showed its face, and it was only at the very end.
"Handbook": However, in the prison, a fellow inmate said, "Oh, money, the visible God!" What does this mean?
Bresson: This money-God incites murder.
"Handbook": Does people say that "Money" is an action movie bother you?
Bresson: No. A film is a continuous movement. The real clue is the inner movement. It is possible that a certain rhythm, a certain circumflex and frustration make this film look more like an action film. This doesn't bother me; quite the opposite.
"Handbook": We are very curious, considering how long it usually takes to edit a film...
Bresson: Yes, unfortunately-oops! ——I really want to work for Cannes.
"Handbook": But how do you keep your physical and impulsive investment?
Bresson: The camera angle and sound are just preparations. Things are attached to each other in the editing room. The image track and the sound track go hand-in-hand, like sisters: slowly, then faster, until finally they can clasp their hands tightly.
"Handbook": Do you feel that you are still exploring unknown areas, unexplored continents in your works?
Bresson: Yes, as long as I still have the ability to put myself in a certain state: just work, don't think about anything, forget everything I have learned.
"Handbook": According to what your collaborators have told us, you are unprepared when you arrive at the shooting scene. Is every shot a beginning for you?
Bresson: It's like this. The night before the shooting, I tried to forget and forget what I had to do in the morning so that I would have a strong feeling about spontaneity. If work means discovery, then preparing everything in advance will lead to nothing. I believe in this immediacy. One thing that shocked me came from the first few steps I took in this terrible business: preparing all the details for a film is a habit, as in a drama: actors study their roles, and so on. The way I shoot now, without actors, is a direct result of the first second of shooting my first feature film. My actresses (there are only women in the film) seem to suddenly-maybe because of their dramatic way of speaking, or their meaningless behavior-no longer people, and then what I had originally imagined Disappeared.
"Handbook": Tell us about your vision.
Bresson: The things we instill in our eyes and ears are produced by these two kinds of machines. They are supposed to make perfect reproductions, but they do not reproduce anything. The camera only provides you with superficial and misleading images of things and creatures. On the other hand, the tape recorder provides the actual material of the sound, including human voices and animal calls. If the first kind of machine cannot provide us with reality and can borrow a little from the second kind of machine (it evokes too much reality), the personal vision we get on the screen will become such a result—a kind of The vision that is consistent with our emotions, a vision that is consistent with the multi-level similarity, equivalence, and transformation of the audible world to the visible world, is also—especially—the visible world to the audible world, but Listening to the world is the deeper and more diverse of the two.
"Handbook": Your non-actor, your model: You choose them because when you see them, do they seem to be interesting people?
Bresson: I always do screen tests, for everyone, it takes a few minutes.
"Handbook": What do you want to find out about them?
Bresson: I don't know them. Yes, I am curious. I once said that I chose them through a kind of moral similarity. Now, as long as their appearance and sound look like they can achieve what I envisioned, my decision is simple.
"Handbook": You haven't made a movie for several years. Do you think the movie has changed?
Bresson: It must evolve. It is standing still.
"Handbook": However, everyone is making movies.
Bresson: The movie is excellent. But the audience can't keep going to the cinema to see another actor "success", or to listen to him controlling his voice. Someone said to me: "We have done everything that can be done to movies." Movies are vast. We haven't done anything yet.
Notes:
Serge Daney (Serge Daney, 1944-1992) is a French journalist and film critic. He also contributed to television criticism and developed a personal audiovisual theory.
Serge Toubiana (1949-) French journalist and film critic, born in Tunisia, moved to France in 1962. From 1996 to 2000, he was the editor-in-chief of the "Cinema Manual", from 2003 to 2016, he was the general manager of the Cinémathèque français (Cinémathèque français), and he became the chairman of UniFrance in 2017.
Leo Tolstoy (Russian name Лев Толстой, 1828-1910) Russian Empire writer and playwright, known for his realistic style, is considered one of the greatest writers in history. In a book published in 1884, he disclosed his Christian faith and believed in non-violence and pacifism.
Pseudo coupons ( at The Forge Coupon , Russian name Фальшивый купон ) in short story published in 1911, Tolstoy behind.
Advances on Receipts (Avance sur recettes in French) was founded in 1959 by the Minister of Culture André Malraux (André Malraux) on the French cultural policy of film, funded by the French National Film Center (CNC) supply.
Genesis ( Genesis ) This is a film project of Bresson. It is the first book of the "Hebrew Bible" and "Old Testament". It is divided into two parts: ancient history and ancestral history. The content of this film plan belongs to the first part. As mentioned below, this project entered the production stage many years ago, but Bresson later left, and was then taken over by American director John Huston. The final film was the 1966 Bible: Genesis. "( The Bible: In the Beginning... ), co-produced by Italy and the United States.
Dino De Laurentiis (Dino De Laurentiis, 1919-2010) is an Italian producer who has worked in various jobs in the film industry before. Award-winning, such as the co-produced " La strada " ( La strada ) won the Oscar for best foreign language film in 1954, and also won the Italian Film Award five times, namely the David Di Donatello Award (David Di Donatello). di Donatello Award) Best Picture Award, including the "Bible: Genesis" mentioned here.
Edgar Allan Poe (Edgar Allan Poe, 1809-1849) is an American poet, writer, editor, and literary critic who is known for his mysterious and terrifying narrative content.
* Refers to the "Notes on Film Writing" published in 1975.
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