Minutes of the post-view symposium on Fassbender's "Patina's Bitter Tears"

Minutes of the symposium after watching Fassbender's work "Patina's Bitter Tears"
/Fan Daming/






Time: November 14, 2015 (Saturday) 11:08-11:35 AM
Venue: Lecture Hall on the
Ground Floor of Henglu Art Museum, 202 Nanshan Road, Hangzhou "After watching the scene)
Participants: (Preface) Fan Daming, Jin Aiwu, Li Hua, Du Sumei, Guo Yicheng, Wang Shujin, Chi Yunfei, Zhao Lingling, Liu Haiqing, Zhang Xiaoping (Watchers: Pang Jian, Ji Boqing, Wan Bangyan, Zhu Songfa, Weng Xiliang, Wang Yuefang, Xu Yong, Fu Peiying, Fan Dayin, Tian Ying, Ma Yile, Zhang Zhenghui, Yao Xiaofeng, Zhu Ming, Zhu Yi, Ding Yunzhen, Zhu Jianyun, Ni Yunxia, ​​Jiang Xizhen, Cai Ling, Han Meidi, Zhu Hui, Zhang Peihong, Zhu Junjie, Zhang Yusu, Zhang Qin, Zhao Yining, Jiang Tianhong, etc.)
Host: Fan Daming
Record: Liu Haiqing’s

film interprets the rich theme of women’s love through six women, and its connotation is deeper.
Fan Daming: Today’s film is like A stage play-Fassbender is said to have made this film based on an adaptation of his original stage play. The whole scene is always in the home of the protagonist and the studio: there is only one environment, a total of five scenes before and after, and the scenes are converted by black films. There are not many characters, and they are all women; the dramatic conflict is mainly through dialogue, and there is a monologue at the beginning of the fourth act. There are four main characters: one is the heroine Patina (the exact translation should be Petra von Conte), a well-known and accomplished couturier who has divorced; the other is her secretary or Maid Marina; the third is her friend Sidoni, she is from Australia; the fourth is the young and beautiful American woman Karin, who met Sidoni in Australia and was introduced to Patina, who loved and nurtured him She is a fashion model. The scene where the characters appeared the most was the scene in the fourth act, with 5 people: without Karin, Patina's daughter and Patina's mother were added. But this film by Fassbender interprets a rich theme of women's love through such six women, and its connotation should be relatively deep.

If love is greedy, it can ruin the goodness at the beginning and ruin a person
Jin Aiwu: The film shows the love of the heroine that is very obsessive. Through the initial chat with her girlfriend, we learned about Patina's love, marriage and many aspects of life. She is a very particular person, pays attention to spiritual life, spiritual life is very full, is a person who pursues perfection. Later, she fell in love with Karin, who was of the same sex, and she collapsed. Although it was a bit weird from her previous life experience, after meeting Karin, she couldn't hold it anymore. Karin is more realistic, she can love Patina, she can also love others, and she can also find the opposite sex. But Patina looked extreme. The film focuses on human nature, the process of human love, human prejudice, including love for the same sex, love for the opposite sex, and choices in these emotions. Although Patina advocated the pursuit of freedom and wanted to relax, she was exhausted in the emotional dedication to Karin and finally came to a dead end. If love is greedy, it can ruin the goodness at the beginning and ruin a person.

Because of the deep love and strong possessiveness, it appears very narrow, and it also caused the other party to leave
Li Hua: the heroine is love-mad. Her husband seemed to do the same to her. Because of deep love and strong possessiveness, it appears very narrow, and it also causes the other person to leave. Judging from the plot of the movie, Patina's final ending should be to come out of her predicament. For example, she finally received a call from Karin, and she was also very calm. She felt a little more calm in her heart, and she also let her secretary free. It should be said that Patina is back to reality.



The heroine did not really come out. The director gave up on her. It was a tragic ending; the general feeling of the film is depressing
Du Sumei: I think this movie does not seem to be the style of director Fassbender. The heroine Patina did not really come out, and the director gave up her, which is a tragic ending. The general feeling is depressive. In such a small space, with a few characters, completely divorced from real life, the director has an attitude of giving up to the protagonist. Judging from the expressions of the final characters, there is no hope.

The film expresses a kind of mental breakdown caused by the loss of love, which is an extreme state of human emotions
. Possessive love is terrible and crazy. Love has become an extreme selfish desire. Compare Karin and Patina, Karin's love belongs to the former; Patina's love belongs to the latter. The consistent theme of Fassbender's films is to reveal the extreme and dark things in human life, especially the spiritual realm. The film expresses a kind of mental breakdown caused by the loss of love, which is an extreme state of human emotions, that is, abnormality. The "Merchants of Four Seasons" that we watched last week actually described a kind of mental breakdown. However, the key to the hero Hans is not only the question of love, but the dignity and the dignity of the person or personality. Caused by the loss of social status and dignity.




Patina hates hypocrisy and has a certain reputation, but she is still very fragile in her heart.
Guo Yicheng : This is my first time here. I think the heroine is living in her own personal spiritual world. She is too independent to accept many things. For example, her girlfriend seems to be struggling to maintain her marriage, but she pursues freedom and independence, so she proposes to divorce her husband. This is also a common problem for artists. Because of her love for horns, she got into a kind of predicament. In fact, she herself is a high-level intellectual and hates hypocrisy; she also has a certain reputation, but she is still very fragile inside: something outside can make her emotionally fluctuating, such as the appearance of Karin. In fact, the families and cultural levels of the two of them are different, and Karin is a bit more secular. They were originally people from two different worlds and different fields, but she loved Karin so much. Maybe it's because she hasn't had love for too long, and her spirit is empty and lonely.
Van Daming: For Patina, Karin's appearance is like a long-thirsty person in the desert finally seeing water. After all, people have two sides, even if you are a celebrity, a rich woman, what a great person on the outside, and behind what people don’t know, there are always some weaknesses in your own soul. Place, that is your weakness.
Du Sumei: She has a lot of needs, but she can't get it—for example, Karin's young beauty is also attractive to her.
Wang Shujin: I don't quite understand it after reading it. I think this love, this person is a bit perverted, she loves very selfishly.




The ending of the film is handled very well: you must cherish the people around you, don't wait for them to leave to realize their value.
Chi Yunfei: This is a female film, I think the heroine is not necessarily a pervert. Patina went from the breakdown of her marriage to the same-sex relationship because of her husband’s hypocrisy. Later, she met Karin and she had a deep relationship and said she was honest with each other. Nervous breakdown, to the brink of self-destruction. When Karin betrayed her, the heroine not only cursed her, but also insulted God, because the director himself is also gay, Christianity is against homosexuality, so the film also uses the heroine's mouth to vent. When the daughter and mother appeared on the stage, the film described the relationship and feelings of the family. I think the director handled the ending of the film very well. At first, the maid worked hard and didn't have a single line, but just after Patina changed her attitude, she left her again. This shows that you must cherish the people around you, don't wait for them to leave to realize their value, then it will be too late.

The three-layer relationship of love can be seen in the film; Patina’s love makes her feel like a person and a ghost is no longer like a ghost.
Van Daming: It is said that the actor who plays the female secretary, Lrm Hermann (Lrm Hermann), in real life, admires the director Fassbender to the extent that he is in love with him madly, even if he is abused and abused by the other party. insult. This is also somewhat projected on Patina, the heroine of the film. The film does have a feminist color, although the director himself is male. We can see this three-tier relationship of love in the film: Karin is at the top, because her love is open and does not demand anyone, so it can be said to be condescending; Patina is under Karin. Second, because she loves Karin so much, she wants her; of course, the female secretary Marina is the bottom, because she is completely controlled by the hostess Patina, and she is willing to be controlled by her, and she She is equally in love with Patina. Love is such a double-edged sword, and the status of love and being loved is so unequal. Judging from the performance of the film, at the beginning, Patina and Karin were equal. They both had just met each other, and they were both beautifully dressed and dazzling. In the end, Patina became a brokenhearted and lost person, and extreme emotions were added to her, which made her disregard her image at all. When we saw her in the film at this time, her face was haggard and her hair was disheveled, and it was all right. Dressed up. Patina's love is so tormenting and ruining people, and it toss a graceful and luxurious fashion designer so that people are not like people, and ghosts are not like ghosts.



The artistic thinking of the director's arrangement is indeed unusual: Patina keeps talking, while the female secretary expresses her inner world.
Zhang Xiaoping: The artistic thinking of the director's arrangement is indeed unusual. The female secretary doesn't have a line, but it's not the same way as the double acting: the heroine contrasts with her, Patina talks constantly, and the female secretary expresses her inner world. Finally, when the female secretary left, the doll she took away was the heroine's favorite thing. Karin finally called, which might relieve Patina's mood.

Regarding the ending of the film and the fate of the characters,
Kim Aiwu: The female secretary Marina is also a maid, and she loves her mistress very much. At the beginning of the film, they are described dancing together. Only the feet of the two wearing shoes are shown in the scene, which should express their intimacy. Finally Marina took a gun when she left. I think she might commit suicide after leaving the owner. Because even though what she got here was slavery and not love, it didn't make much sense for her to live after she left.
Liu Haiqing: I think the ending of the film is good, optimistic, not tragic. Of course I didn’t pay attention to the details of the pistol, but I think the female secretary Marina has a deep affection for her mistress. At first, Marina would cry when she heard the mistress talk about the pain of life; later, she saw Karin give it to her. The pain she caused, when she saw her scolding Karin as a prostitute, she found that Marina was still secretly happy. Finally, the hostess told Marina that she was free and happy. Although she packed her things and left, the hostess did not stop her. The expression on her face was still happy; Marina took away her favorite doll, but she did not stop it. . I think Marina takes away the doll at the end of the film, which is to take away the signs of the mistress's pain in the past, which is obviously a relief to her. This ending of the film means that the two of them have started a new life.
For women’s love, the ultimate goal is still men. Love and desire or the
entanglement of love and desire is the basic theme of the film Du Sumei: How old was the director when he made this film? I feel that the director's methods are very high, showing a complex and rich human nature. The setting is also very meaningful: the space at the beginning is very narrow, and then there is a large carpet, which is quite empty.
Fan Daming: The film was shot in 1972, when the director was 27 years old. Ten years later, in 1982, Fassbender died at the age of 37. In 14 years, he directed 41 films, very impressive, his own life course also contains tragedy. The empty interior space at the end of the film is a symbol of the heroine's loss of love. There are also those oil paintings in the background. The nudes of men and women, especially the male genitals, have always been eye-catching throughout the film. I think the ultimate goal of women’s love is men. The ensemble of love and desire or love and desire is the basic theme of the film.
Liu Haiqing: Although there are no male characters directly in the film, the worries of the women are all related to men: Patina divorced his husband, and Karin left because her husband came to Germany to meet her again, Bai The trouble of Tina's daughter is that she fell in love with a boy.
Fan Daming: And she is still poor unrequited love. Therefore, it can be said that this film has very rich connotations, including the love and desire of the opposite sex and the same sex, and the complexity of human nature and human feelings is fully expressed. Organizer's note

on November 15, 2015
: This minutes is the 104th minutes of the forum since the establishment of Hangzhou Henglu Art Film Club.

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